57 Replies Latest reply on May 25, 2017 3:29 PM by ajohnsuw

    Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...

    Kurt Albrecht Tracker

      Is there a way to reject a print job in uniprint based on invalid job specifications?  In particular, we have had a recent problem with printer logjams at unattended printers caused by print jobs specifying legal size or tabloid size paper.

        • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
          Wayfarer

          Yes Uniprint can do this via scripting and the scripting engine.

           

          The scripting engine allows you to extract the job properities and then deny the job at the queue level. You need to be careful however as there are a couple of things you should know.

           

          • The cancellation is once the job has arrived at the server queue as the job needs to be examined there.
          • Notification is important because if you randomly deny a job the user will think the job is lost. So I recommend maybe email or popups and use a popup notification
          • Scripting isn't for just anyone, if you need help get it. Pharos offers this as a service and its worth every penny.
          • The scripting assumes the information is arriving with the print job, if you have any special systems that may not send this information then you may not be able to cancel or deny the job.

           

          Hope this helps.

          Madbull

          3 of 3 people found this helpful
          • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
            Yadin Flammer Navigator

            Pharos Administrator -> Output Management -> Devices -> Select printer in question

             

            Under the Printer section, go to Job Attributes

             

            If it's checked, it's allowed.  If it's not, it's denied.  Make sure you have data types properly enabled, not just paper types.

            2 of 2 people found this helpful
            • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
              Jason Pelletier Tracker

              You can. I believe it is under the Job Attributes option on the printer (Device). Having no boxes chacked will allow everything. Checking boxes will start to allow only those types of jobs. All other jobs are denied by Uniprint. We use this a lot as we have some PDFs that have been scanned in at the wrong paper size so would require user input at the device, which doesn't work well when there's a line of students trying to print.

              1 of 1 people found this helpful
                • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                  Kurt Albrecht Tracker

                  Thanks to all!  I think there is an easy solution there.  I had not looked at that location in a couple of years..We will test our solution with our restart this coming monday.

                    • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                      Wayfarer

                      Kurt,

                       

                      Both Yadin Flammer and Jason Pelletier are correct. Please be aware that this does not notify the user.

                       

                      Cheers

                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                        • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                          Yadin Flammer Navigator

                          Actually it does notify the user, assuming you have the Notify client installed and the server set up to use it.  Granted the message is a little cryptic as it says "No printer matches all job attributes", but that doesn't take much user education to make clear.

                          1 of 1 people found this helpful
                            • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                              Wayfarer

                              Agreed and good point. Popups and Notify in the latest client are combined.

                                • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                  Kurt Albrecht Tracker

                                  We have implemented.  The message that pops up is: "There is no valid printer for printing this job from this station".  Most important is that the customer is not charged for the print that cannot happen.

                                   

                                  I did not mention before:  we are running 8.1

                                   

                                  Thank You All,

                                  Kurt

                                    • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                      Kurt Albrecht Tracker

                                      Follow up after a couple of months of experience.

                                       

                                      Although the filter was easy enough to implement, we feel that our experience was worthy of a few remarks and perhaps a little follow up from Pharos.

                                       

                                      1. We had to remove the filtering from one of our printers after just 2 days because almost no jobs were succeeding.  This printer is located in a research libray where the vast majority of printing is done from on-line journals (file type: PDF) with a wide variety of page sizes.  (although we tried, we were unable to find a way to print "fit-to-page".)  We have examined this in more detail given our experience with item (3) below, but still have not discovered a reason for the printing failures.
                                      2. We have found that the error message is sufficiently vague as to be almost useless.  We have spent a few hours making signs and explaining (5 minutes at a time) the meaning of  "There is no valid printer for printing this job from this station".  Since there is a very specific filter being applied, it might be possible or advisable, at least useful, to generate an error message that matches the situation.
                                      3. We have also had a few instances of patrons setting their page size to "letter" only to find that MS office pretty much ignores print driver settings when sending print jobs to printers.  It turns out that "Page Set-Up" is all that really counts.  While this has made some of us more aware of what it is that we are printing, many of our patrons have become very frustrated.

                                       

                                      Thank you, Kurt

                                        • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                          Scott Olswold Guide

                                          Kurt,

                                           

                                          Some of your woes may be cured by upgrading your Pcounter.exe (the "Pharos Page Counter"), as this little aspect of the Uniprint solution gets updated fairly frequently. The latest PCounter can be downloaded at any time by accessing this link:

                                           

                                          https://private.filesanywhere.com/pharos/fs/v.aspx?v=8a7066889e9c6fb9a9ae

                                           

                                          Because the PCounter is updated frequently (to accommodate new driver "features" and ways of handling things), we don't normally include it in the RSS feed for Uniprint. That may or may not change.

                                           

                                          I'm suggesting this because your experience with using "Job Attributes" to limit output to specific attributes has been less than stellar, but it's best to not throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. And in regards to application-handling of paper size:

                                           

                                          Adobe Acrobat 7.x-X.x


                                          Here's the dialog box:

                                           

                                          I am one of those "Adobe Certified Professional" so-and-sos, And I really dislike that Adobe always strives to make the "Print" dialog boxes in their various applications (A) Non-standard between the suite and (B) akin to requiring a PhD in Print Mechanics. In the Land of Prepress (where I cut my teeth, back when you could still etch film to correct image setter mistakes), we all learned that it was best to remove all of that interesting stuff about sizing, rotating, and choosing paper sources from our "print" repertoire (yes, you are correct: all of that stuff that is enabled by default). So (and I'm showing Acrobat's 9.5 Print dialog box here) keep "Scaling" off as much as possible, and always keep the "Auto rotate" and "Choose paper source" boxes clear. Instead, use the Properties button to access the printer driver's options and go from there. At the end of the journey, you'll be better off for it. Exception: PDFs generated by scanners are notorious (with uppercase B.I.G) for being all over the place when it comes to "dimension." In the "Preview" panel, the "Document" label indicates the dimension of the PDF file and the "Paper" label indicates the current paper size set in the driver. When Scaling is set to None, carefully observe the Preview to determine if you need to scale or not; if you do, engage the scaling function of the driver and not the print dialog box. If this isn't an option in the driver, then your only choice is to use the Acrobat option, unless what is "cut off" is not important to the output (like extra margin space), and then you can get away with no scaling whatsoever.

                                           

                                          Microsoft Word

                                          Microsoft Word has retained an annoying function of previous word processing heavyweights like WordStar (tm) and WordPerfect (tm) in that it bases the initial page setup on the "system default" driver on the host workstation, and keeps it that way, even if the document changes homes (like uploading to Google Drive from a home PC and then opening it on a computer lab machine at school). This can result in weird output behavior (like line endings changing; goofy page breaks) as it recomposes the document on-the-fly after the user clicks the Print button. And you are correct: you must go into Page Setup and redefine things there (IMPORTANT: ensure that your desired printer queue is set as your system default prior to doing this), or the changes you make in Properties for paper size, etc. is a wasted effort. It creates, in effect, this wonderful workflow:

                                           

                                          1. Set the default printer.
                                          2. Launch Word.
                                          3. Go to File > Open and select/open your document.
                                          4. Go to Page Setup (if you are using "the ribbon," that's in the Page Layout tab; I prefer to click the little fly-out button in the lower right corner of the Page Setup group because I'm old-school MS Word 3.0).
                                          5. Click the Paper tab and define your paper size, applying it (as applicable) to the Whole Document:

                                           

                                           

                                          and then continue the print event.

                                           

                                          I will be the first to admit that all of this above completely makes "point and print" a bald-faced lie, but in doing so, the end user becomes more confident that what is printed (and what is charged for) is what's expected.

                                          1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                          • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                            Kurt Albrecht Tracker

                                            Another update:

                                            After upgrading our services to include mobile printing the filtering via job attributes ceased to function and we returned to a recurring state of printer logjams.  The solution this time was to apply Hot Fix 423.  We are running smoothly once again.

                                             

                                            Kurt

                              • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                Kurt Albrecht Tracker

                                Further info:

                                Seems obvious now - when using Job Attributes to limit jobs at an iMFP, be sure to include all potentially acceptable attributes, 

                                 

                                Please note that the long list of attributes includes more attributes than paper size.  In this case we are limiting just paper size (accepting Letter only), so it is important to INCLUDE (check) all non-paper size attributes. 

                                 

                                It seems that Acrobat includes several (at least 1) other attributes along with page size - so that ALL PDFs will be rejected if the Job Attribute list is not otherwise very inclusive.

                                 

                                When we limited Job Attributes to Letter we were not able to print any PDFs.  Now that we have also checked all of the non-paper attributes (e.g. simplex, duplex, color, mono,...), we are back to successfully printing PDFs.

                                 

                                Kurt

                                  • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                    Kurt Albrecht Tracker

                                    I am not sure what happened with the grammer on that last, I think this text editor mangled it.  The jist of that should have been that it is important to include all potentially acceptable attributes since acrobat sends several job attributes that you the job sender may not be aware of.

                                     

                                    thanks, Kurt

                                    • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                      brad Pioneer

                                      Hmmm... that's kinda interesting - and a little annoying, considering each attribute you add, adds additional cost structures you need to set up/consider for each paper size you have configured. This makes your overall list of per attribute items a fairly considerable list.

                                       

                                      One issue that we're experiencing here, and I'm not sure if it's directly related (but seems to be) to this topic (hence me replying here, rather than posting a new one), is that we are getting occasional complaints from the libraries advising that their patrons are printing jobs, releasing them to the printer (and being charged for the print), but nothing is coming out of the machine. I have been trying to narrow the cause of this down, and can't find too much in the way of commonalities with the print jobs this is occurring with (partly because half the time the libraries don't tell us about the issue until half a day after the patron's moved on, so we can't get the info we need). The main ones we've found (and, after reading all of the above, this doesn't surprise me) is with PDFs, and websites.

                                       

                                      With the job attribute settings you're talking about above, is the job stopped at the client side, if you try printing a job with incorrect attributes - or could that explain the issues we're experiencing?

                                       

                                      We have a fairly simple attribute-based configuration, with just 8 "per page" attributes configured - A3/A4 paper, with regular, colour, colour duplex, and duplex options available. Could it be that we need to get more complex with this? I didn't think so, as the jobs are (or at least appear to be) being released from Pharos to the printer and simply not coming out... but now I'm not so sure...

                                        • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                          Yadin Flammer Navigator

                                          Brad,

                                          If the server sends the job to the printer, then everything based on the drivers you configured on the server for that printer is valid.  In other words, there is no attribute issue, if there was the job would not have been sent, it would have errored with "No printer matches all job attributes" or something similar.

                                          In every case I have seen of a job that gets through the server, and is correctly billed for the attributes, but does not print, there is a corruption in the print job.  In many of those cases the printer will crash, the jetdirect card (HP) will crash, or it will start spitting reams of code sheets.  In most of those cases the problem is printing indexed image files from a Mac (gif images, some other rare ones) be it straight up, part of a web page, or in a PDF file.  Because Adobe and Apple do odd things with printing, while these would print direct without issue, for some reason adding the print server to the mix makes it fail, and no company (Apple, Adobe, HP, Pharos) want to take the blame, they all point at each other instead.  As a result, we warn about that image format and suggest with PDF files that have an issue they check the advanced options box to "print as image" as that rasterizes the file at the computer instead of at the printer thereby eliminating the format issue.

                                          As to your comment about a considerable list of attributes, I don't find that's the case.  We allow certain attributes and a couple paper sizes.  For laser printers this basically means letter, ledger, legal, and custom are set up with costs, and allowed attributes (that have no cost as it's irrelevant, they are billed by page size) include things like pdf, color, B&W, nostaple, etc.  Anything else, like our exchange students who choose A4, get the attribute failure message and we educate them on the issue.

                                          For Kurt a few posts back, the allowance of "custom" gets around a LOT of odd little settings, including the "fit to page" I'm sure as we've never run into that.

                                           

                                          Hope this helps!

                                          Yadin

                                            • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                              Kurt Albrecht Tracker

                                              We do not in fact allow custom, since we were actually excluding anything other than letter.  Allowing other page sizes, which we were originally doing by default, was beginning to cause quite a customer service problem for us last year.  A4 has not actually caused us any problems because our print drivers are set to automatically convert them to letter.  We did have a problem with some of our folks printing to legal and tabloid sizes that then stalled the printers for substantial periods as the printers waited in vain for the "correct" paper size to be loaded.

                                               

                                              last month we had a number of people get a weird custom size (8.5x10.35) through to the printer event - our new pcounter seems to have solved that issue.

                                               

                                              We have not had a pricing issue - our problems have been with printers getting log jammed with inappropriate job settings.

                                               

                                              Kurt

                                               

                                              Update here, in light of info  of March 2014 below:  We thought we were not allowing "Custom".  Please see below for the actual truth.

                                              Kurt

                                            • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                              Scott Olswold Guide

                                              Brad,

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                              When this happens, do you see any related error in the Alerts context? If the job is going into LaLa Land after we’ve successfully sent the job, then this would be a “NO”; otherwise, if the Uniprint software knew about the loss, it would report it as an Alert.

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                              Scott

                                                • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                  brad Pioneer

                                                  Hi Scott,

                                                   

                                                  Thanks for the response (and you also, Yadin). No alerts - all seems fine from the Pharos perspective. Job is released, funds are removed from the account, and nothing happens on the printer. The two instances I've gotten decent info on this on, has been printing from a PDF, and from a web page.

                                                   

                                                  Our attribute config is configured for fairly minimal options - A3/A4 paper, colour and duplex options.

                                                   

                                                  So, that all being said, I'm guessing this comes down to more of a driver issue, than a Pharos one?? It'll likely become a moot point early in the new year, as we are about to replace our fleet of Ricohs with Xerox machines... but I'd still like to know the cause in case I'm come across it in future... being a "geek", I don't like not knowing what went wrong

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Cheers,

                                                   

                                                  Brad.

                                                    • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                      Scott Olswold Guide

                                                      Brad,

                                                       

                                                      I dislike it, too ... I can only attribute it to my CDO (OCD the way it should be spelled).

                                                       

                                                      We know several things:

                                                       

                                                      1. Users can get the job into Uniprint.

                                                      2. Uniprint is pricing the job correctly (this means that it has also parsed it correctly, so the assumption is that the spool file itself is not mangled on receipt).

                                                      3. Uniprint thinks it has successfully sent the job to the printer.

                                                       

                                                      So the answer is buried in the printer. If the blinking "I'm doing something" light starts to blink and then just goes solid, that's usually a parsing error inside the device. What's the manufacture of the device(s), and models? I know that some, like Xerox, can bury the received job in an "alerts" queue because there's a mismatch between what the job wants to do and what the device has available.

                                                       

                                                      Please let us know.

                                                       

                                                      -Scott

                                                        • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                          brad Pioneer

                                                          Scott - my apologies for a rather tardy response to this one. Was just scrolling through after getting notification of another post on this thread, and spotted our side discussion, and my lack of response. The good(?) news is that:

                                                           

                                                          1. we're still experiencing the issue after our printer fleet was updated and
                                                          2. I can actually shed some more light on my particular aspect of this, as I am in the process of (hopefully) getting a resolution rolled out for it

                                                           

                                                          ...so I'll post a rough summary of the details/fix here in case anyone finds themselves in a similar boat.

                                                           

                                                          It is funny you should mention Xerox - as that's what we're on - ApeosPort-V C3373 colour machines, and the B&W equivalent (exact model # on those evades my rather sketchy memory right now). It turns out, that the majority of (I'm reluctant to say "all") the issues that were being experienced were PDF's being printed from a "preview" window of a webmail service (various services, but only using IE as the browser, as far as I can tell from feedback I've had from our libraries).

                                                           

                                                          So after much to-ing, fro-ing, and Google-ing, we've (myself and our Xerox service rep) managed to come up with a 2-pronged attack: there is a custom firmware revision available to help minimise instances of this, and there is also a setting in the print driver itself which also helps reduce the occurrences (hesitant to say "will fix it", for either of the options) - which involves telling the driver to print True Type as a bitmap.

                                                           

                                                          We would have already had the driver update put in place, except for the fact I've come across an interesting (and somewhat frustrating) issue in Pharos whereby that particular setting within the print driver doesn't carry across into the printer package when you package it via Pharos Admin (I have a question posted up about this issue - I'll go tag you in it once I finish proof-reading this one).

                                                            • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                              John Siegel Guide

                                                              Hi Brad,

                                                               

                                                                           When you experience the print driver failing to carry, what application(s) are you printing from? Are you using PCL or PS drivers? Are jobs being spooled on the workstation or on the print server? We are running Xerox Phaser 5550's, 7500's, and 3610's as well as WorkCentre 5335's and 7835's. We've seen similar problems and our golden rule is whenever possible, "download to the desktop and then print"

                                                               

                                                              ~John

                                                                • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                                  brad Pioneer

                                                                  Hi John,

                                                                   

                                                                  Generally, it was printing from a webmail preview using IE11, with PCL 6 drivers. Chrome seems to be fine at this point in time. And yes - either changing browsers, or downloading and opening the file "properly" is the work-around Library staff have been using with folks that take the time to complain about the issue.

                                                                   

                                                                  Unfortunately, there's a fair number of folks that don't bother complaining - and just try doing the same thing on ALL the printers at the branch...

                                                                   

                                                                  Cheers,

                                                                  Brad.

                                                                    • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                                      John Siegel Guide

                                                                      Understood, alas..........if only everything were standardized. 

                                                                        • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                                          John Siegel Guide

                                                                          Hi Brad,

                                                                           

                                                                                       We've walked through this minefield a few times over the years. It ends up being a trade off. Which generates more calls, people who's jobs are denied and don't print, or people who jobs requesting unsupported paper sizes back up the printers. etc. Even with pop ups or emails as an explanation as to why a job doesn't make it through, customers still call in thinking it's the printers.

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                                       Realistically, both of these scenarios are caused by customers not paying attention to what they are sending. We clearly state what paper sizes\job types we support both on our IT website and on physical signage at the printer locations. A recent survey revealed that over 50 percent of our users don't even know we have a printing specific website that provides info/troubleshooting tips that would resolve about 90 percent of the average users issues. We have been working with communications in trying to "spread the word".

                                                                           

                                                                                      

                                                                                        At present we allow customers to send "whatever" and respond to calls about job failures (i.e. job doesn't show up in queue, MFD asking for resources) with a canned response that reiterates what paper sizes\job types are supported, along with a link to the printing website. So basically we end up trying to educate our customer base "one user at a time".

                                                                           

                                                                                     

                                                                                      At our current rate of response, we anticipate completing this process in time for the international pig flying competition as long as it coincides with the complete subterranean soul storage freeze-over.

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                          Regards,

                                                                           

                                                                                        John

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                                                  " You can print some of the pages all of the time, and all of the pages some of the time, but you can't print all of the pages, all of the time! "

                                                        • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                          Wally Strzelec Adventurer

                                                          Uniprint 8.4

                                                           

                                                          I do not have the Custom attribute selected as a valid attribute for the device, yet it is allowed to be sent to the device anyway.

                                                           

                                                          What I am expecting is the is "There is no valid printer for printing this job from this station."

                                                           

                                                          Instead, we are seeing that the job goes through anyway and then the printer can't print it and waits for that size paper to be loaded. We have worked around the problem by setting the time to wait for the correct paper time limit to 0, but what happens then is the job does not get printed correctly and I have to issue a refund.

                                                           

                                                          So, if Custom is not selected as a valid attribute for the device, why does Pharos allow for it to be released?

                                                           

                                                          -Wally

                                                            • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                              Scott Olswold Guide

                                                              Wally,

                                                               

                                                              For some reason unknown to me, Custom is marked in the attribute table as not to be considered for printing or moving jobs.  It seems to me that in this case, the Admin should not show the attribute in the attribute list for devices either, but this is obviously not the case.

                                                               

                                                              To achieve what you describe, we need to change that.  My concern is that since I don't know why it was excluded, I don't know what other effects this will have.  It may have been a decision to deal with certain situations, or it may just have been an oversight.  In any case, here is the SQL query you need to have Custom treated as an attribute to block:

                                                               

                                                              alter table job_attributes disable trigger job_attributes_insupddel_tr

                                                              update job_attributes set jattr_uses = 7 where name='Custom'

                                                              alter table job_attributes enable trigger job_attributes_insupddel_tr

                                                               

                                                              After you apply this, you will need to issue a change control.  After that, Custom jobs should be blocked the same as jobs of the wrong paper size.  If you experience odd issues, or want to restore the system to its initial state, you can run this query:

                                                               

                                                              alter table job_attributes disable trigger job_attributes_insupddel_tr

                                                              update job_attributes set jattr_uses = 3 where name='Custom'

                                                              alter table job_attributes enable trigger job_attributes_insupddel_tr

                                                               

                                                              Kurt Albrecht, you may want to apply this as well. I have confirmed that it affects both Uniprint 8.3 (any patch level) and 8.4. I have not tried this in version 8.2 (yet).

                                                               

                                                              Regards,

                                                              Scott

                                                            • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                              Rachel Peters Wayfarer

                                                              So looking through this thread has been pretty interesting to me, and limiting job attributes based on size seems like it could solve a decent portion of print mishaps on campus. I have a few questions, though, that I'm hoping someone can help with. First off, is there a way in Pharos Reports (or Admin if need be) to pull say, a tally of what print attributes jobs had over a period of time? My attempt here is to get an understanding of the most common print attributes that pass through our system so I know what attributes absolutely need to be enabled in order to not falsely reject print jobs. My other concern is the message that pops up on the omega "There is no valid printer available for printing this job from this station", is going to confuse the majority of students who encounter it. Is there any way to customize this message?

                                                               

                                                              Thanks in advance to all with any insight!

                                                              ~Rachel

                                                                • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                                  Kurt Albrecht Tracker

                                                                  Here at WSU we had a script that worked for a while that replaced the line "There is no..." with "Paper Size not accepted", but that reverted when we upgraded from UP8.1 to UP8.3.

                                                                   

                                                                  My guess about the attributes is that it should be possible since the data is sitting there in the "Job Attributes" of printed transactions, but none of the default reports come close to answering the question of attribute usage.  My knowledge of Crystal Reports is close to nil, and my knowledge of SQL is more than 20 years cold so my suggestion here should be taken as a theoretical one.

                                                                  • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                                    brad Pioneer

                                                                    Rachel, I'm not 100% sure, but I suspect the message you're referring to could possibly be a part of the theme? I had a look through the config on one of our devices, and couldn't find the exact wording that's been referred to here, but ours have been installed for awhile now, so may be different... have attached a pic showing what I'm talking about in the hope that it'll be of help to you.

                                                                     

                                                                    As for the reports - not that I know of (on 8.3, at least). May be that your best bet is to take a look at the database directly?pharos.jpg

                                                                  • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                                    Paul LaFollette Guide

                                                                    Going through this thread has been illuminating.  Sadly, while it points me in the direction I need for solving an issue I have... it does not provide me a solution.

                                                                     

                                                                    It would seem there are two things needed (Pharos?  Product suggestion?):

                                                                     

                                                                    1. There needs to be a much better mechanism for the alert notification.  A) Better message or means to customize the message, B) Message based on Job Attribute triggering the notification (Message for incorrect paper type, Message for incorrect paper size, etc.)

                                                                     

                                                                    2. Improved list of Job Attributes.  Yes, there are a lot of Job Attributes listed but it would appear a few blaring omissions.  Where is there no "Plain" paper type attribute?  Why no "Photo" paper type attribute?   That said, shouldn't there be attributes for Letterhead, Cardstock, Labels, Transparencies?  I can easily see the need to allow or disallow ALL of these paper types.   The current Job Attributes list is mostly paper sizes and just a few paper/job types ("Color" for example).

                                                                     

                                                                    My interest in this thread is in the hopes of finding a usable solution for a scenario I have.  We have a 36 inch wide dual roll printer used in a classroom environment for printing floor plans, diagrams, mechanical and construction engineering, and (more importantly) design renderings.  To this end, we're trying to have loaded in this (really cool) printer both plain paper and photo paper since it can have two rolls loaded at a time.  The problem is giving a means through Uniprint to have a print choice that consistently selects the "plain" paper and a separate print choice that consistently selects the "photo" paper ... and allows for separate pricing (plain at one price, photo at double the price).

                                                                     

                                                                    The problem is how simply the users (clever students) can select the photo paper and get their nice renderings at the plain paper price instead of the much steeper photo price.   Plus a instructor (backed by his fellow instructors) are now asking for third option... Low priced mono only printing for their floor plans ... on the same printer.

                                                                     

                                                                    Sadly, it looks like Pharos Uniprint cannot give me that fine of control at this time ... unless someone knows something I haven't found.

                                                                     

                                                                    - Paul L.

                                                                      • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                                        Yadin Flammer Navigator

                                                                        Paul,

                                                                        First off, props on the icon, I was sorry when those characters were retired 

                                                                        In relation to your issue, I have a few thoughts for what they are worth.  To a degree it seems like what you are talking about is not a tech issue but a training issue.  Users kind of need to know how to choose a paper source in their print setup options when a printer has multiple paper types or sizes.

                                                                         

                                                                        In relation to attributes, you can have charges for different attribute types, that's a basic function of the system.  As such mono and color can have different costs linked to them, so that handles your instructor request.  Paper TYPE is an issue because that requires a two way communication between the printer and the Pharos software in order to determine what it has loaded and how to identify it.  This is a feature I've asked about myself in the past, but I understand it's VERY involved to implement as it could differ drastically between printers and manufacturers.  As such, charging different for "plain" vs "glossy" isn't possible.  I agree that would be very nice, but I have not seen any solution that does what Uniprint does and has that ability.  Our solution is to have specific media in specific devices, or average the costs over the scale of the organization as needed.  Yes it means some jobs cost more than maybe they should, and others less, but it's pennies on the dollar.  Largely, we supply media like heavyweight coated, and allow students to custom load their own glossy paper.  Yes that means they are paying paper cost to us when using their media, but again because of what we supply it's pennies on the dollar.  The much larger issue is ink coverage.  Full cover photos use a LOT more ink than a plan drawing, but Pharos does not charge by ink used (again very hard to do outside a specific manufacturer, I think Epson might have a product to track at that level for their printers).  So we already know job cost is all over the board and comes down to averages, and everyone accepts that fact as something that comes out in the wash.

                                                                         

                                                                        That being said, we do area costing for large format printers, which unfortunately precludes attribute costing.  The result being we can't down charge for mono vs color, and the blending of these charging structures is absolutely something we have requested for several years, if only being able to apply multiple methods to a single device/group.  Unfortunately, there have not been enough others asking for it for them to implement.  However, as I look at 8.4, and the fact that you can have job cost methods apply at a user group base, I'm wondering if some trickery is possible, but it's unclear how these things interact.  I think I'll open a ticket asking about that and report back...  You can do attribute costing on a large format but we found it much more desirable to have the flexibility of area costing.  Note that either way prints smaller than the roll width waste paper and again introduce cost questions you can't account for perfectly, again leading to the averages instead of absolutes in our way of thinking.

                                                                         

                                                                        In relation to the error messages back to the user, I agree it would be nice to have more GUI options to configure this.  Their thinking seems to be however that you can accomplish this via scripting and they provide the documentation to do so.  I've never been inclined to dive into that to simply clarify for a user if the job rejection was based on paper size, type, or something else, but I wouldn't be surprised if you can have the error bounce back exactly which job attribute failed to pass the check.  In our case 90% of these errors are due to exchange students trying to print A4 on Letter, so it's not worth the time to custom code.

                                                                         

                                                                        I don't know that I present any answers, just thoughts that might help the perspective change so you can arrive at a reasonable compromise.

                                                                         

                                                                        Cheers!

                                                                        Yadin

                                                                        • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                                          David Marcinkowski Scout

                                                                          It might be able to do this ...  But you would need to customize the ppd file .... Which is not really a Pharos thing.  Each printer mapped could be for a single paper eg: photo printer, bond printer.

                                                                           

                                                                          The modified ppd files would have the roll you wanted as the default roll so it would use that one

                                                                           

                                                                          We do something similar so a single Xerox phaser with multiple trays can support multiple paper types/sizes on a single 4 tray printer

                                                                           

                                                                          Since a single printer will have multiple queues in Pharos and the ppd would determine which roll to use.  The burden is off the student to know how to select the right roll as well ....

                                                                           

                                                                          What kind of printer is this?

                                                                           

                                                                          David

                                                                           

                                                                          David Marcinkowski

                                                                          Associate Director

                                                                          Computer Services

                                                                          Pratt Institute

                                                                            • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                                              Yadin Flammer Navigator

                                                                              This is very interesting to me David, can you detail a bit more how you pull this off?  i.e. do you somehow install multiple printers on the server or is there one printer with multiple queues?  What relationships do you configure (i.e. print groups)?  How do you roll in the custom settings when choosing a driver is a drop down and printers are no longer configurable Windows devices?  Do you have this working on Mac as well as Win clients?  Which version of Uniprint (since the setup kind of changed radically in 8.3)?

                                                                              Thanks!

                                                                            • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                                              Kurt Albrecht Tracker

                                                                              We have had that pricing problem with "Custom" jobs in our Mobile Printing Group (where all pages are automatically scaled to letter size):  All prices go to the default price instead of the price they should be.

                                                                               

                                                                              Would a solution be to set the default price for the highest price in the system and any job correctly defined would then be printed for a lower correct price??  presumably, the user would see a large price posted for their job and choose to resubmit it with the proper attributes.

                                                                               

                                                                              The pricing problem is not a question with jobs submitted to a standard (non-Mobile) queue:  The problem here is that the printers are unable to print the job - this results in the printer log jam where many jobs can pile up while waiting for the first to be cleared. Perhaps a high price for "Custom" pages would act as a deterrence here too.

                                                                               

                                                                              Kurt

                                                                                • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                                                  Steven English Guide

                                                                                  Kurt Albrecht,

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I typically set the default page cost to $1,000 or something ridiculously high.  Then anything that doesn't charge as expected in the table results in a price high enough no one releases it (or could even if they wanted to), and when the complaint comes in the astronomical price is a dead giveaway when it comes to diagnosing the problem since there isn't a layer of confusion about being charged fifteen cents too much or whatever the price difference is in your setup.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Regards,

                                                                                  Steven

                                                                                  1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                                              • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                                                Scott Olswold Guide

                                                                                Yadin,

                                                                                 

                                                                                You would indeed need to install multiple queues within Uniprint (and thus, within Windows) to tackle what David's suggesting, but it does work. If the queue's settings "stick" in the packages, then it is a simple matter of building your multiple queues, configuring each to your desired format (Vellum, Roll 2, etc.). Then you point them all at the same Device. This does take some of the onus off the end user (mostly for attempting to understand sometimes very confusing driver options), but the user still has to pick the right queue.

                                                                                 

                                                                                If you choose to modify the PPD (for those printers that have support for PostScript or are front-ended by a RIP), you still have "per job" control if you really want it.The cool thing about PPDs is that you can create your own paper sizes in the PPD and create them in your JCM as well, so you can get "media type" pricing. For example, I could duplicate the "ArchD" paper size and call it "ArchDGloss" and set it as the preferred default. Then specify ArchDGloss as a paper size in Uniprint that has a price 30% higher than ArchDBond. You can also eliminate a host of options in the driver that you'd really not want to support or provide. Please note that you need to modify the PPD prior to installing the queue, or the .BPD file that Windows builds (and references forevermore) will not include those changes.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Scott

                                                                                  • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                                                    brad Pioneer

                                                                                    Hmmm - certainly some interesting ideas here. Just got back from a week of leave and playing catchup... the first question that sprang to mind for me, is does that leave you open to deliberate "mis-deeds"? As in, if a driver is deliberately pointing to a particular tray/roll for costings - could a student install a "photo" roll into a regular roll slot and get photo quality paper at a regular paper price? Or does the PPD config take that into consideration with regard to the config of the printer itself? I've not played/delved into that stuff as of yet, so not too sure of the workings.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Just playing devils advocate here, in order to see what the pro's and con's are - because I can guarantee that if I can think of it, it's not going to take long for students to come up with 14 other similar ideas for getting around something

                                                                                      • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                                                        Scott Olswold Guide

                                                                                        Brad,

                                                                                         

                                                                                        There is nothing more resourceful than a person desperately trying to save a quid, no doubt. And if we're angling on job attributes to play police officer, it is only a matter of time before "the secret sauce" ends up as a recipe on Facebook (I almost said #Chatroom) or Instagram. So yes, there's always some risk due to misdeeds.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        -Scott

                                                                                          • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                                                            Paul LaFollette Guide

                                                                                            Indeed.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            Currently, in the scenario I've got, there are two printer objects for the wide-carriage plotter on the computers that feed two print queues with different pricing.  One is set to Roll 1 and Plain paper, the other is set to Roll 2 and Photo paper.  There is nothing stopping the users from telling either object to use different paper or roll.  What makes it even worse is a tendency by the printer to use the last used roll instead of referring to the Roll indicated by the print job.  Cannot lockout the roll controls of the printer (without essentially disabling the printer) and cannot change/force the driver to one setting or the other without voiding manufacturer support (if I was so inclined to do that level of "customization").

                                                                                             

                                                                                            The only thing I can do at this point is have the two queues priced according to the settings I'd like the users to use and hope for the best.  Knowing the students are just as clever as me, I've "padded" the pricing to help compensate for the "clever thinking" students.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            I just wish there was more paper type (Plain, Bond, Photo) controls in Pharos.   Wouldn't have to be the whole set, just a couple of the more common ones.  Heck, they could even be listed with what brand it's for (HP Plain, HP Photo, Canon Photo, whatever)... but I guess that's wishful thinking.

                                                                                      • Re: Can Uniprint reject a print job with incorrect paper...
                                                                                        Kurt Albrecht Tracker

                                                                                        Update on the original question:  We updated to UP 9.0 last summer and now we are beginning to see odd page sizes causing printing log jams again.  The problem this time around is compounded by instructors posting "work" pages to Blackboard with little regard for page size, since, of course, page size doesn't matter in Blackboard. 

                                                                                        Would the newest pcounter help? - we were up to date in August, but I am not sure where we are at the moment.

                                                                                        Does it make a difference if it is the 3rd page that is the odd size out? - the whole job would be rejected if I had my druthers.

                                                                                        Should we not be allowing "Default Paper Size"?  That sounds like letting the printer decide and we all should know by now that the ratio of printer intelligence (self-described) to printer intelligence (actual) is far larger than actual reality might suggest.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Kurt